Transcript

Alicia Garza:

Welcome to Sunstorm, where we get real about what’s happening in the world and what we’re doing about it, because we are the light in the storm. Hi, I’m Alicia Garza.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

And I’m Ai-jen Poo.

 

Alicia Garza:

And we are back for season three of Sunstorm. Yes.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Yes. Last time we were recording, what feels like a million years ago, but was actually just five months ago, we were talking to Nsé Ufot and Nikema Williams, Congresswoman Nikema Williams.

 

Alicia Garza:

That’s right. Get it over it.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Right? About all the things Georgia.

 

Alicia Garza:

And Black voters in particular took us over the finish line. But then because Black voters were so powerful, Georgia pulled some nonsense.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Oh yeah. And then there were attacks on the Capitol, anti-Asian violence, more police murders, not to mention the fact that we’re still in a pandemic.

 

Alicia Garza:

We are still in a panini, a panoramic, a Ponderosa. I mean, there’s so many words for what we’ve been in over the last year. But what I think we’re pivoting toward now is, okay, so we’re moving through it and our third season is all about what now? What have we learned and how do we keep on learning and growing for the future?

 

Ai-jen Poo:

The pandemic created this massive disruption in our lives at a time when we’d just been through years of an administration that was threatening the very existence of our democracy.

 

Alicia Garza:

That’s right.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

And I think we learned a lot and we saw some things we can’t unsee.

 

Alicia Garza:

they’re burned into my eyes.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Exactly. But I wonder also if we’re going to be in this mode of wanting to get things, so-called back to normal, to move on with our lives, to put the last four years and the last year behind us, and then forget some of the things that we saw that we really needed to see.

 

Alicia Garza:

What were some of those things for you Ai-jen?

 

Ai-jen Poo:

The fact that we realized that democracy lives and breathes with us, and it can only be safe and healthy if we participate. I don’t want to forget what we saw in terms of how many workers have to live in poverty, even though they literally saved our lives in this pandemic. How do we make sure that we not only remember how essential they are, but treat them as essential and protect them in a new way? What about you?

 

Alicia Garza:

I don’t want us to forget how we came together when everything was falling apart. I don’t want us to forget that spirit of, we all got to help each other out. We got to be in this thing together. And even if it was short-lived, in a way I felt like this is something that we need to carry forward with us. This notion that our survival depends on each other. I also don’t want to forget how many people stepped up in this last year. Politics stopped being a thing that is private, politics became a thing that connected us. And I don’t want to forget that. I also don’t want to forget waking up on the morning when the election was called and hearing my neighbor literally opening my eyes to my neighbor going, hallelujah, he’s out of here. I never want to forget that moment because I remember levitating out of bed and it was sunny out and I was like, oh my God.

 

And then lastly, I don’t want to forget how far the lengths that people will go to keep us from being powerful. It had everything to do with the fact that we stood up and we mobilized. And I don’t want us to forget that equation, that when we dare to exercise our power, there, of course, will be people who try to strip it from us, honey, but we need to keep that same energy that we took to the polls. And we need to keep it for the next four years, the next 10 years, the next 50 years, to make sure that we move this country forward.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

That is going to be so key. And it’s so much a part of the reason why we started this podcast, was to shine a light on the incredible ways in which we show up for each other. Even though it feels a little sunnier in general, the storms are still coming. Are we in a sun storm still? What’s happening right now?

 

Alicia Garza:

This last year was all about us being the superheroes in our own stories and not waiting for anybody to save us. We were like, “Hey, check this out. We got work to do.” And I feel like the weather is unstable. And I also feel like we’re in spring. So I cannot emphasize enough the feeling that I had when I saw the president announce 400 billion, not million honey, but $400 billion for care. I could not believe it. And I just want to say for people who are listening, Ai-jen be planting seeds all the time and I should know this about you by now, because I’ve known you for so long. And I remember you whispering in my ear around November, December, “We need $400 billion for care.” And I was like, “Yeah, we do need $400 billion for care. And also what? That would be nice, but is that really possible?” And then lo and behold honey, 400 billion not $399, but $400 billions.

 

And also, Ai-jen that was a seed you planted, which was the care is infrastructure, it’s as important as highways and roads and dams and all the things. It is a part of the fabric of our country, so can you just sprinkle us with some of your game? I mean, how do your plants always grow so beautiful?

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Millions of us realized that we can’t function if we don’t have childcare or elder care or supports for people that we love, who have disabilities and need assistance. And when the pandemic pulled our default care infrastructure out from under us, which is basically women, especially women of color, when we could not piece it together in the unsustainable way that we were doing before the pandemic and the pandemic just made it totally impossible, the whole thing collapsed on our heads. And I think we all realized collectively that this is impossible and we actually need childcare. We need elder care. We need home and community-based services. We need paid leave. And without those things, we can’t function. That awareness in the pandemic plus a decade or more of seeds that the incredible care workers and domestic workers who’ve been organizing, there’s been a movement that’s been seated over many years. And I honestly remember saying to our team, “Y’all care may never be sexy, but we’re just going to keep at it because we need this.”

 

Alicia Garza:

That’s right.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Lo and behold, here we have this massive pandemic and then a new administration and a new Congress and a president who was himself, a family caregiver, and a single dad. And our movement supercharged our efforts to win care as part of the infrastructure we need to build, to recover and to make these jobs good jobs. And that speech where the president said, we got to value and protect the work that makes everything else possible. The women of color who’ve been undervalued and unseen for too long. Oh my God. Amazing. So yes, lots of seeds over many years and so many amazing groups and workers and caregivers and leaders. And we have a moment right now. It’s now.

 

Alicia Garza:

What I love about this, is this is going to improve the quality of life for women of color for Black women, for immigrant women. And it’s just the beginning, actually having a workforce be recognized in this way and not through platitudes, but money honey, money. $400 billion and just for people who are listening, I woke up the day of the announcement and I opened the New York Times app and I saw president to make an announcement, blah, blah, blah. And then I saw this bar graph of how much money was being given to each thing in the jobs plan. And care was at the top. Oh, my God. And it was the longest bar. I was like, “Yes, keep that bar going, honey. Yes.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Oh, my gosh. So good. You’re going to make me cry again.

 

Alicia Garza:

No, you should cry because it’s… You should put this on your tombstone.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Well, we still got to win.

 

Alicia Garza:

Oh, of course. But I’m just saying, if we’re keeping a record of the things that we want to make sure people know that we did when we die, this has to be up in there. Okay.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

And you know what, I just want to say one thing, this is really big. The president’s announcement of the American jobs plan is the biggest jobs plan since the new deal. And there were two groups of workers who were excluded from the new deal. Farm workers and domestic workers and they were excluded because of racism. Anti-Black racism. And the fact that those home care workers are going to be at the forefront of the biggest jobs plans since the new deal is awesome. And it’s a testament to our power. We did this y’all, we showed up to vote, we organized, we mobilized. That is why this is even a conversation right now.

 

Alicia Garza:

So let’s get into this Ai-jen. I mean, I feel like we have won some big victories. And at the same time, I also feel like we have a lot of work to do. And this is evidenced by the ongoing epidemic of police violence that we see in this country. It feels like every week since the election, I think we have had our hearts full and had our hearts broken simultaneously and-

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Over and over.

 

Alicia Garza:

It is exhausting. And I think a lot of people are wondering this, what are we supposed to be doing right now? We have a new administration, they have heard the mandate that we delivered. And I think for a lot of people, our practice is to do the hard work, to get people there and then to turn away and be like, okay, now y’all do your jobs. And we made that mistake. We’ve made that mistake already. So thinking about things that we want to unlearn, it’s that pattern of going super hard and then turning away from the ongoing work of democracy. We did that under President Obama and it really screwed us. So what’s your thinking right now Ai-jen? I think there’s millions of people who are like, “I did a lot of work to bring my neighbors and my community together to make sure nobody got left behind. And now I’m just not super clear about what the work is now. What do I do?”

 

Ai-jen Poo:

The way I’ve been thinking about this moment is that there is a virtuous cycle of participation that leads to real justice and equity and opportunity and joy in this country. And it involves us participating in an ongoing way. So we mobilized like crazy to the polls and we delivered real election outcomes. But what we did was we put a bunch of people in office and now what we need to do, our work has just started, it is about pushing them to deliver real change, bold change. And to really get at the problems that we’re facing, the incredible challenges, the violence of our policing system and the violence of our economy, actually getting at those root issues. So we’re delivering real results and real impact, and then telling the story of that impact and understanding that it’s us. We did that. And having that inspire us to go back again. That’s how history will move forward.

 

But I want to come back to this question of police violence, because I know how many people are just exhausted by just the ongoing cases and the failure of the system to deliver justice, to actually address the incredible violence and terror that Black communities face. And what are people asking you these days in this time? And what are you saying?

 

Alicia Garza:

I think what I hear a lot from people is we’ve been protesting, we’ve been marching, we’ve put our signs up, we’ve forced conversations in our workplaces and in our homes about how we value Black lives so why isn’t anything changing? And I think there’s a couple of ways to answer that. One is everything is changing right now and change doesn’t just mean a thing stops, change also is about the expansion of conversations, the introduction of conversations, new concepts, new ways of being. And in a lot of ways, I’m not impatient with that expansion and it takes work. Let me just be clear. I too want things to be different right now. And at the same time, and my things are really different. And so I’m just sitting with that contradiction. On the other hand, police violence is a outgrowth of policing in this country. And one thing that I think has grown is our ability to tolerate the discomfort of really exploring what safety and care looks like beyond policing.

 

And I’m somebody who has been skeptical at times, I have been confused at times and in a lot of ways, I’m like, I don’t know what that looks like, but what I’m excited about in this moment is that we are being called to build and dream. And it is easier to identify all the places that we want to take apart. But what we’re being called to do right now is to build what that world looks like. And I think the severity of the crisis is forcing us to do that work faster and it’s forcing that work to be more urgent. None of us want to continue to see people being killed by the police for no other reason, except they were Black and breathing. Now, with that being said, what can people do to make that happen? So much of that work is not actually decided at the federal level, the feds set the tone for what departments across the country do or don’t do.

 

But this is actually the exciting part, which is you can have so much impact over what happens with policing in your community, by getting involved in your community at the local level, your mayors, your governors, they’re making a lot of decisions about rules for policing. They’re making a lot of decisions. Yeah.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Say more about that. How do people get involved at those levels?

 

Alicia Garza:

Well, number one, you got get involved with your city council. Your city council essentially is setting the tone for what your mayor does. And every city is different, some cities have strong mayors, which means that mayors actually legislate. Other cities like mine, we have weaker mayors and these are cities that are actually driven by what we call city managers instead of mayors themselves. But either way, those decisions are happening right within your reach. So don’t wait for President Biden to do something about policing in your community because the fact of the matter is because of the way this country was set up and the separation between the feds and the States, policing is one of those things that there’s a lot of control over locally. And that in a lot of ways was designed by the very people that we’re fighting right now.

 

But that’s to our advantage, it’s to our advantage, we’re closer to the pain, but we’re also closer to the decision-making when it comes to that. And then of course, your governor, your governor is setting the tone too, for what’s happening in your State. So we got to be thinking about not just what’s happening in the White House, there’s so much work that we can do in our own communities to influence and impact where resources go and where they don’t go. And particularly also the stories we tell about who deserves care and who doesn’t deserve care. We can impact that story right where we live. And it’s a lot easier. Trust me, people, it’s a lot easier to do than it is to try to get the feds to do something. So there’s that on that.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

I agree with that completely. I also hear you saying that we are making progress, we are growing, it’s so deep and rooted that we have to work at all these levels, but it does sound like progress is being made. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

 

Alicia Garza:

Yeah. I mean, for me, we are having completely different conversations than we were even a year ago. That’s just a basic fact. And for everybody who participated in a match or a protest last year, you know there was more people, the people were more diverse. It wasn’t just Black people, it was everybody who was standing up for Black lives. Now, with that being said, we did have a lot of performance, lots of people putting signs in their windows, but not actually doing the work to make Black Lives Matter. But I saw a lot of uncomfortable conversations happening that were not happening before. I also have seen outrage that I didn’t see before. A lot of the same narratives that used to work two years ago, three years ago, five years ago, they don’t work anymore. And I think we’re shifting the way that we embody our values. Now, that process is very slow. Imagine that it’s taken my entire lifetime, 40 years, for us to get to this place where we’re having these conversations.

 

The other thing that’s important is that there are massive shifts that are possible and happening right now. And I actually feel like there’s more possible in the next four years than there has been in the last decade. That’s huge. It’s huge. Literally people, we just came out of a period where the Department of Justice was basically completely being dismantled from the inside, any kind of oversight. We’re also coming out of a period where no legislation on policing was possible at all. We are coming out of a period where every single day we were being assaulted by racist, xenophobic, homophobic, sexist, classist, all the ist and the isms that you can possibly imagine. We were being bombarded with that every single day, multiple times a day for four years by the leader of the free world. That is no longer true. Has anybody realized social media, even though it is assessable, but it’s assessable because of your friends and the people in your networks, not because of your president. That’s a huge deal. And also we have vaccines. Dude, we have vaccines.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

We are crushing this virus.

 

Alicia Garza:

And we have an acknowledgement that there’s even a pandemic that’s happening. It’s not a cold, it’s not something you can drink bleach to get away from. It’s actually a public health crisis that is being addressed.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Incredible.

 

Alicia Garza:

Lots has changed people. Things are changing.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Lots has changed.

 

Alicia Garza:

And let me just say this, it is only changing because you stepped up, because you stepped up and because you decided you were going to be the superhero in your own story, things are changing. So can I just give it up for everybody who’s listening right now? Because honestly this time last year, I was like, we’re going to be in a dark place for many years. And yes, I believe we are the light in the storm, but also the storm’s about to get thick. And they’re about to get longer. I am feeling like the storms are a little bit more manageable now, but it’s just going to require us.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Woo. Say all of that. Oh. You know how when the weather’s really bad, I know how I am in the Chicago winter, by February, I’m permanently hunched over because of the cold, your body just changes.

 

Alicia Garza:

That’s because you live in the polar vortex. That’s why.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Fair enough. It’s going to take a minute for us to embody a little bit more sun, a little bit more progress. Like spring, summer, vaccines-

 

Alicia Garza:

Vaccines.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Jobs. And sometimes I wonder if we’re just not good also at acknowledging sometimes when there has been real progress and I think that’s actually key to how we move forward, because how will we remember how important it was, the way that we showed up and the fact that we showed up in the middle of the biggest storm of the century. If we don’t acknowledge all the wins, like the vaccines, like what you said, that this is all possible. All this progress is possible because of us. We just have to keep remembering and reminding ourselves. So Alicia, one of my favorite things about you is you are just fearless when it comes to facing all of our challenges and being real, like here’s the real talk, here’s what’s really happening, don’t be in denial, let’s face it, let’s figure out how we undo it and win.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

And then you’re also amazing at leaning into joy. And I think a lot of people are having a hard time orienting because we’re still in a pandemic and bad things are still happening. There’s still lots of storms, but it really is different and feels different. And what would you tell people in terms of, what should our posture be right now? And how do you navigate the disorientation of this time of change?

 

Alicia Garza:

Look, there’s going to be a lot of moments over this next year where you’re going to feel stuck, static, where you’re going to feel like that wasn’t exactly the change I was looking for. But if we really believe that there is more possible in the next four years than there has been over the last decade, it means we have a short window to win real things for real people. And that requires not dissatisfaction and cynicism and despair and standing still, but it requires innovation and creativity and trying things we haven’t tried before and being okay to fail, but just doing it quick so we can get through to the thing that we really need to do. This was true for us a lot last year. Look, I mean, for all of us who are politics junkies, we were all caught flat-footed too. We were like, “We don’t know what we’re going to do. We have no idea. This was not a part of the plan. This wasn’t a part of plan B plan C plan D. We don’t know.”

 

We figured out how to mobilize. We figured out how to organize. We figured out how to do a lot of things on Zoom that we didn’t think were possible on Zoom. And we also figured out how to keep progress moving, even though the road was super foggy. Now, we are emerging into a part of the road where the fog has lifted a little bit, but it’s still misty. And I think what it takes to burn through fog is heat, sun, our longing and aspiration for what we want this place to be, to help burn through that fog. It doesn’t mean we have the answers, it means that we’re clearing space to see better. So that’s what I would offer us for what I think is really needed right now to remember to tap into the sun. What about you? What do you think?

 

Ai-jen Poo:

If we had the resources to make it this far, we certainly have what it takes to navigate this next phase in a way that is more powerful than we ever could have imagined. And I do think that we are living through one of those times. You said more is possible in these next four years than has been in decades. And I really couldn’t agree more. This is one of those times when history is accelerated, it’s moving faster and bigger, bolder things are possible exponentially faster. And what will make the difference in velocity and scope and scale is us. So everything we learned, just try to marshal it towards that sun, that vision for what’s possible. And I think we’ll get there. I really do.

 

Alicia Garza:

Yeah, same and amen and all the damn things. Well, Ai-jen I don’t know about you, but for me, I’m really excited about this season. For me this season is going to be all about not just what now, but how are we doing it? How are we making a way, even when we were not sure that there’s a way? So I’m looking forward to asking our guests this season, how they did it, how they’re doing it and what they’re learning, and also what they’re unlearning. How about you? What are you looking forward to for the season?

 

Ai-jen Poo:

I’m looking forward to diving deep with you to make sure that we don’t forget the things that we do need to take with us from this last four years and last year in particular. That we mark our growth, what we’ve learned and the things that we don’t want to unsee. So that we can be exponentially more powerful going forward.

 

Alicia Garza:

I’m so here for that, I love it. All right, friends, over the next few weeks, we are really looking forward to having inspiring conversations with some of our favorite people about what we’re learning and what we’re unlearning. We’re so excited to share those with you.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

And in the meantime, we want to hear from you. What’s inspiring you right now? Follow us @sunstormpod on social media and tweet us @Ai-jenPoo and @AliciaGarza, #sunstorm and tell your friends to listen. We can’t wait to hear from you. Until next week ciao.

 

Sunstorm is a project of the National Domestic Workers Alliance in collaboration with Participant. Sunstorm is executive produced by Alicia Garza, Ai-jen Poo and Kristina Mevs-Apgar. Sunstorm is produced by Amy S. Choi and Rebecca Lehrer of The Mash-Up Americans. Producers are Shelby Sandlin, Mary Phillips Sandy and Mia Warren. Original music composed by Jen Kwok and Jody Shelton.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Ooh, I need tequila in my life.

 

Alicia Garza:

Please. And thank you.

 

Ai-jen Poo:

Yes.